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Post by Kart 90 on Dec 16, 2009 8:05:35 GMT 9.5
Finally someone has the understanding of clutch issue isntead of some of the reasons being bandied around. Clutches are a good tool for teaching confidence to younger drivers. The other issues regarding spinning out and being able to drive off again especially as noted about an incident at the nationals come down to drving standards and not a tech issue. It is up to the chief steward to advise drivers at the meetings what the requirements are relating to spinning or comming to a stop are. It can be addressed but not removing the option and I repeat option of using clutches is very short sighted to kart racing. As far as was periously stated comment about mud blocking the clutch that is a maintence issue not a tech issue. Look at what they are and the benifit for younger drivers and for the safety of helpers. upsracing as far as others having a go most clubs run an education day and there is also the option of a day licence if I remeber right the cost is around $8.00 for people to have a go which will allow others to have a go and promote karting to others as you have previously done Clutches maybe good to improve driving but some children need to have the shock of not finishing a race so they understand how to driver. I have seen somebody with a clutch race for about half a season and then when he takes of his clutch he doesn't finish one race. Clutches are gone all the clubs have been notify ed just ask your club delegate. There is no point crying over split milk. People who had clutches obviously had the money to go out and buy them in the first place so they can just sell them. It is not fair when a driver drives dirty and takes out other drivers. Fair enough the stewards could just call the driver up who took the other karter out. But what happens to the karter who gets taken out does he get his points back no. I saw at Angas in the J Open final sometime at the start of the year. The person who was one pole got over taken on the start cleanly by a karter who obviously didn't have a clutch. How do I know this you may ask? It is because the karter who started on pole drove straight into the karter on second as he was coming out of the first corner, both karts got hooked together. The karter without the clutch was obviously pissed off that he could keep going so he just waited in his kart, meanwhile the karter with the clutch is telling the person he just took out to get his go kart unhooked. The flaggie came and unhooked the karts and the karter who started first ended up still finishing 3rd on the day. How is that fair? If you want to get into any motor sport eg speedway (sprintcars) if you want to race with a clutch do to bitchemen and have a cry when somebody sidepods you they don't have clutches so why have them in juniors, they can be used to teach rookies to drive that is why they are still in rookies. Also KTs don't have clutches and I don't think they ever will. So why teach somebody how to drive only to have to reteach them again in the future. Would like to know what the AIDKA Constitution says in section 18. c.part d? Can't ever see them coming back or if they do comeback it will only be till next year as stated in the above post 7 clubs voted against them and only 3 clubs wanted clutches. Maybe if YP had finals, as they have only had like one this season you would see how bad clutches are. Do YP even have a J Open class
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Post by WA Dirt Kart racer on Dec 16, 2009 9:32:35 GMT 9.5
I red som good & badd points on clutch. Constitutions r writen Drivers race Stewards talk Members vote Delegate delivers Association counts votes Minority Loose Majority win Rules change Constitutions are updated System can't be fairer- No need for some to be nasty Ask yor delegate its al ovr , move on.
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Post by outlaw19 on Dec 16, 2009 12:00:37 GMT 9.5
Kart 90 What possible difference wether yp run finals or not have anything to do with clutch issue thats not even an arguing point. The process as to how this rule was tabled is in breach of the AIDKA constitution from the timeframe for clubs to discuss through to when a rule change can be implimented for the following season there is a set time frame and guideleine for rules changes this rule change should never have been tabled at that meeting it was outside the the mention 18.c part d and also was outside supplementary Rules and Regulations Rule 3 Section 3.2. As WA Dirt Kart Racer said System can't be fairer then this rule has to be made nul and void and resubmitted at a later date, meeting the quidelines and time frame for discussion
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Post by WA Dirt Kart racer on Dec 16, 2009 13:44:48 GMT 9.5
I said whts done is done ;D Last year al the rules arrived at clubs on Tues. with just 3 days prior to the rule change meeting on the Friday No 1 raised issues then. The clutches came n mid the previous year & no club had a say only the AIDKA team . They didn't even get tested , they came in after heavy pushing buy a few. Everything can be picked on in life , but this year the delegates went away happy with the situation & knew the time they had 2 consider their clubs vote. As a delegate they must known their clubs thoughts or they are a ""poor"" delegate.
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Post by Kart 15 on Dec 16, 2009 15:33:06 GMT 9.5
I said whts done is done ;D Last year al the rules arrived at clubs on Tues. with just 3 days prior to the rule change meeting on the Friday No 1 raised issues then. The clutches came n mid the previous year & no club had a say only the AIDKA team . They didn't even get tested , they came in after heavy pushing buy a few. Everything can be picked on in life , but this year the delegates went away happy with the situation & knew the time they had 2 consider their clubs vote. As a delegate they must known their clubs thoughts or they are a ""poor"" delegate. Agreed they are gone what's done is done!!!!!!!!
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Bitumen bystander No 158
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Post by Bitumen bystander No 158 on Dec 16, 2009 15:37:04 GMT 9.5
Interesting reading on site . Excuse my knowledge of dirt karting but here is what I know. outlaw driver I understand as runs dirt outlaw class.[Superkart , gearbox style but on dirt. Other group being Kart 90 , 15, MR.X. WA DirtRacer,upsracin seem to run classes affected by the new rule changes. Yamaha J motor is no longer using clutch? Sorry outlaw but I'd go with the group 1st hand using, they appear OK with changes. I feel better to get my info 1st hand . Optional on the bitumen has its complainers too & there are always new rules bought in throughout the year from what I've seen . I run a KTS motor / Tony Kart Poor losers run to find cracks in rules. Winners win in time , I hope, and can except their loss . Rather be a winner. Happy racing anyway.
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Post by __[Race Fan]__ on Dec 16, 2009 16:03:59 GMT 9.5
well there is a plus and a negative for this discussion. The plus is that there will be a lot less crashes and argerments there for we might finish at a Reasonable time. And the negative is that all those unfit parents have to push their kids again HAHAHAHA And yes done is done!!!!!!!! ;Dyay no more Clutches ;D
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Post by outlaw19 on Dec 16, 2009 16:29:38 GMT 9.5
As A delegate to AIDKA at this meeting I think I am in a better position to comment on the way things have transpired. The rule in its present form was not on the agenda but was attempted to be add but was rejected. The rule in the form put forward was with drawn and this ammendment was then tabled! Under the present constitution and rules and regulation the constitution clearly states the time frame in which rules have to be lodged and outed to clubs for consideration neither the constitution nor the rules and regulations allow for a 7 day vote period. the constitution clearly states 6 weeks prior to the meeting the amended rule requires 30 days for discussion at club level before a vote be taken. None of the delegates at the meeting had the sanction from their clubs to vote on that rule hence the need to seek the clubs to vote on it. If you go by constitution and and rules and regulations this rule could not be voted on in the period. If we have rules and regulations combined with a constitution and it is not adherred to what is the point of having either. The proposing delegate has the right to have the ammended rule tabled but under the present system it could not have and should have been tabled at that meeting and a vote asked for. This rule change ammendment should be tabled at the next meeting in feburary. If the clubs have previously only recieved the rule changes 3 days prior to the rule change meeting that again is in opposition to the before mentioned rules and regulations and constitution. The rules have to be decided by the clubs membership not just a sample few people. It may not have affected the outcome also not all clubs were entitled to a vote for what ever reason the result maybe different is correct process,s were used. I think a lot of people who have commented first need to obtain a copy of the constitution from their clubs and also read their rule book for a clearer understanding of my concerns.
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Post by tom on Dec 16, 2009 17:42:44 GMT 9.5
I agree that the constitution needs to be followed.. If rule changes can be tabled and voted on at the same meeting we are as an association headed down a troubled road!
One of the best things about the AIDKA rule-set is it's stability, i personally think there should be an even larger timeframe and majority percentage for any rule changes (including so called "safety" rules) to be implemented..
I appreciate the efforts of those delegates that take their time to attend the AIDKA meetings, but they should know better than to table and vote on an item at the same meeting..
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Post by Kart 33 on Dec 16, 2009 17:53:03 GMT 9.5
I agree that the constitution needs to be followed.. If rule changes can be tabled and voted on at the same meeting we are as an association headed down a troubled road! One of the best things about the AIDKA rule-set is it's stability, i personally think there should be an even larger timeframe and majority percentage for any rule changes (including so called "safety" rules) to be implemented.. I appreciate the efforts of those delegates that take their time to attend the AIDKA meetings, but they should know better than to table and vote on an item at the same meeting.. Wasn't there a rule submitted then it was ammended later on as it clashed with the constitution so it isn't really a new rule only an ammended proposed rule.
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Post by outlaw19 on Dec 16, 2009 18:47:21 GMT 9.5
kart33 There was a rule change submitted that didn't totally ban clutches this rule change was withdrawn by the nominating club and another rule substitute in its place. This was not an amended rule but a totally different version. This rule should not have been tabled at this meeting being a whole new rule it needed submitting and putting out to all clubs for consideration, and the process is not a 7 day thing, I know I keep harping but but obtain a copy of the constitution you will see what I mean. I can not print the text here because it may infringe copyright laws but it is readilly available from your club. I agree with you Tom about the tabling of this rule and the delegates responsbilities together with the executive should have known the process. This was my first meeting as a delegate I know a lot more now than I did about the process's and a valuable experience for when I attend future meetings
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Post by Kart 75 on Dec 16, 2009 20:27:20 GMT 9.5
kart33 There was a rule change submitted that didn't totally ban clutches this rule change was withdrawn by the nominating club and another rule substitute in its place. This was not an amended rule but a totally different version. This rule should not have been tabled at this meeting being a whole new rule it needed submitting and putting out to all clubs for consideration, and the process is not a 7 day thing, I know I keep harping but but obtain a copy of the constitution you will see what I mean. I can not print the text here because it may infringe copyright laws but it is readilly available from your club. I agree with you Tom about the tabling of this rule and the delegates responsbilities together with the executive should have known the process. This was my first meeting as a delegate I know a lot more now than I did about the process's and a valuable experience for when I attend future meetings I do agree with you Outlaw19 the process may not have been exactly to plan but the rule has been published already. You can try to bring it up at the next AIDKA meeting but it is really hard as a minority to go up against the majority. Good luck with what you are trying to do but dont be surprised if AIDKA don't take any notice of your proposal as it is very hard to change any associations mind once it is made up. Good Luck though.
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Post by WA Dirt Kart racer on Dec 16, 2009 22:29:01 GMT 9.5
Amended/Proposed/Changed/Adjusted/Reworded Bla Bla Bla rule 4.2 aidka ses they r not perfect & spirit of rules is 2 b folowed 4.1 ses aidka decision is final Read watt you wish. Delegates happy at the time , now unhapy after da result wz confirmed So sum rules say 1 thing & yor constitution may say diferent, hav not seen it but wer isued rule book. 7 votes out of 10 votes, put yr calculator away....its no brain teas
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Post by interested party on Dec 17, 2009 7:05:47 GMT 9.5
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Post by Kart 75 on Dec 17, 2009 10:01:05 GMT 9.5
Really WA Racer you have no idea what your talking about I agree with outlaw get yourself the relevent information then make comment until you do you have no idea geez some people really are ??. I have read the rule and the constitution I know what hes trying to do and is correct in the comments made You may have done all that but you are climbing a steep hill, it is very hard to change what has already happend. Good Luck though
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Post by __[Race Fan]__ on Dec 17, 2009 10:40:05 GMT 9.5
Can I Just Say. I think most people are happy to see Clutches gone.
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Post by tom on Dec 17, 2009 13:42:33 GMT 9.5
Two issues here.. I'm not in favor of Yamaha motors with clutches, but am even more unhappy that shortcuts are being taken when making rule-changes.
The main reason is that if people feel that the rules are unstable, then they are discouraged from racing.
For those that disagree with clutches, what difference would it make if they were allowed to remain OPTIONAL for this season??
If you think drivers are behaving badly because they are using a clutch, approach the drivers rep. on the day and ask them to observe them.
To me the most important thing is stability of the rules of AIDKA, and for people to resist the temptation to make a knee-jerk decision.
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Post by outlaw19 on Dec 17, 2009 14:50:49 GMT 9.5
Totally agree with you Tom I have previously commended about an amnesty for the use clutches and the word is optional no one has stated you must have a clutch, I also have stated the bad behavior is a driving standards thing not a technical thing and should be addressed by chief steward on the day. Secondly people would be surprised at the time frame and the date rule changes have to be submitted by for the next season is not as a lot may think. Unfortunately I can not write the appropriate section of the constitution here because it may breach copyright but I urge People to have a look at 18.c part d. it explains my concerns also look in your rule book 3.2 this section further states the necessary time clubs have to consider a new rule change Its not 7 days. These rules are set for a reason they should not be circumvented
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Brook
Street Racer
[Mo0:8]
Posts: 15
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Post by Brook on Dec 17, 2009 15:51:33 GMT 9.5
The sad thing here is I'm not convinced banning clutches is the best solution for karting, they are a great learning tool, if they are that bad why didn't they ban them in rookies? Anyone can be taken out of a race at anytime you dont need a clutch to do that, I have heard all these arguments over my 20 plus years of karting, we had the same problems when sidepods came in, yes that's right kiddies we raced without sidepods and we raced wheel to wheel, had less rollovers and more respect for our opposition. All sidepods have done for our sport has given drivers a way to barge through but we still run them the difference is everyone runs them so what would happen if everyone had to run a clutch? Now there is a can of worms for you all! Truth is we all have to stop looking for excuses, stewards have to be a lot harder and the clubs of AIDKA need to think outside of there own little track and think about the big picture with these issues. Good Luck with that!
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Post by RIP Clutches on Dec 17, 2009 20:06:02 GMT 9.5
Are we still going on about clutches?, Lets wrap it up. We have heard a lot of very good & bad experiances . In time we may be able to resolve problems & one day we may see a swing to more good than bad experiances. You can talk talk but it doesn't change whats happened in 2009. Fact is Most didn't get one . Most saw more problems over time. . Most agreed '' No clutches" based on comments. Only about a handfull had them at the nationals amoungst about 60 J drivers , yet some saw only the bad side of clutches from that event .
Couldn't disagree surely with those facts [ or are you racing on another planet] & trying to ignore what took place in 2009 Majority voted em out, majority are OK their gone , majority won't want there return for a while , cause majority didn't want to race with some using & some not. To make compulsary would incure an unjust cost to everyone .
So optional isn't any relief to those drivers.
Despite all the accusations & talk, one can"t deny the result is what most [ but not all] the drivers wanted, which was to not go forward with them.
Clutches RIP , If pros outway cons , they may return in years , but without many changes to rules , stewarding solutions & a factory fitted Yamaha clutch it may be difficult for people to change their minds.
! ! _ _ ! _ _ ! ! ! ! Say your farewells , shed a tear if you had a good experiance or jump with joy if you had a bad one . Have a coffee & a biscuit at the wake & enjoy the company surrounding you. Remember life is short Be happy. Can we move on finally.
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