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Post by Admin on Jul 9, 2010 13:52:14 GMT 9.5
 Images thanks to Daniel Coelman |
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Post by Disagree on Jun 25, 2011 17:54:07 GMT 9.5
The decision to make the nationals over six heats is a difficult one to comprehend. The following email I received a few weeks ago says it all:
I just wanted to express my disappointment at hearing that the national titles is going to be held 6 heats drop your worst. I think that this format is not becoming of an event such as a national title.
Every title event I have been to, the only time spectators fill the grandstands and pack in at the fences, is the finals – its where people come along to cheer there drivers who are doing well along. Take away having a final and you take this away – which to me is disappointing not only to the crowd who we are wanting to come along but also fellow drivers who wish to watch also.
If the National titles needs to be held over 6 heats why not have a format as follows? It is not difficult to do.
5 Heats and a FINAL format. Four grid drawn heats as per a normal day. “Fifth heat” you start in your starting position as you would do on a normal race meeting and only the top 20 from each class make it through to the fifth heat. After the 5th heat – you drop your worst round – giving you your starting position for the final, final places are then added to you points that you went into the final with giving you the winner.
This still makes it beneficial to finish all your heats – buts gives those drivers who get mixed up in “unfortunate” accidents a second chance to try and get some extra points if they are good enough.
Going to a 6 heat format, unfortunately does away with the POLE POSITION award which is traditionally awarded before the start of the Finals, rewarding the drivers who start on POLE, who as we have all seen may not necessarily take out the win overall.
Also with a 6 heat format, at such a big event as a national title, extra added pressure on the track and helpers – if there are 12 subscribed classes and 8 are oversubscribed – there are 20 races per round. This means with 4 heats and a final there are 92 Races in the weekend. Going to 6 heats drop your worst there will be 120 races in the weekend which is a 3rd more!
Going to the format I suggested above – there would be 104 races only, which is essentially the equivalent of running two club day rounds less in the whole meeting.
I accept that I was not at the meeting to have my say on this, had I known this was on the agenda I would have made more of an effort to get there.
To me, the NATIONAL finals are the absolute pinnacle of the sport – all of the best drivers and all of the spectators line the fences to cheer on those who are up the pointy end and in with a chance at taking out the victory.
I am not sure if it is too late to change the format or if in fact people would want to? Any comments on the above are more than welcome as I am not sure on other people’s opinions on this.
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Post by yorkie157 on Jun 25, 2011 18:59:03 GMT 9.5
Good questions
I'll fllow this link with interest!
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Post by Admin on Jun 25, 2011 21:11:57 GMT 9.5
Seems like an interesting topic, have added new site poll onto the main site page.
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Post by John on Jun 25, 2011 21:51:08 GMT 9.5
Reference to the "AIDKA Rules of Racing 2011" provides answer to one of the questions raised above.
Appendix "A" - 7 on page 54
7. Each class of racing at a title event shall be contested over:
(a) four heats and a final
(b) six (6) heats dropping the worst heat to determine the winner
(c) eight (8) heats dropping the worst heat to determine the winner
(d) four (4) heats to determine the starting position for the final
where the finishing order of the final determines the overall winner
The appointed title committee will determine the race format.
The rule specifies the various race formats that have been agreed to by the majority of Club Delegates at previous AIDKA Rule Change Meetings.
The appointed title committee have in accordance with the same rule made a decision to use option (b) of this rule.
All AIDKA Club members have the opportunity to propose changes to the AIDKA Rules of Racing via their club. If the majority of their club members agree then the club will forward the proposed change to AIDKA for inclusion in the Rule Change Meeting where it will be considered by the club delegates.
If you want to propose a new race format for Title Events then it needs to be via the official Rule Change process.
Has your local club already voted on their Rule Change submissions? If not you may be able to submit a change to your club for consideration for this years Rule Change meeting in August. The new Rule would be added to the following years Rule Book and so would be available for the 2012 Title Events.
I would suggest that the decision has been made and as per most decisions there will be a broad spectrum of opinions.
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Post by John on Jun 25, 2011 21:59:37 GMT 9.5
The poll should provide some interesting feedback and may provide some guidance for one of the AIDKA Clubs to submit a Rule Change submission.
As outined above the only current race format options are as per the AIDKA Rules of Racing Appendix - "A".
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Post by Wakarter on Jun 25, 2011 22:08:24 GMT 9.5
As the "final" isn't winner takes out the event, I would suggest that the format put forward as a suggestion could easily be classified as a 6 heats drop your worst as essentially that is what it is.
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Post by John on Jun 25, 2011 22:31:27 GMT 9.5
I think the suggestion was that the new 5th Heat is actually the current Final. You would grid as per the current Final for the 5th Heat and then at the conclusion of the 5th Heat Drop the Worst Heat points to calculate the grid position for the 6th race that is the new Final.
It would essentially have a Final with the top point scorer in grid 1 and second highest point scorer in grid 2 etc.
With the 6 Heats Drop the Worst Heat you don't have a Final and that is the issue being raised.
Going into Heat 6 you essentially have very little idea of who is actually going to be the ultimate title winner. Remember that you don't know the worst Heat result until Heat 6 concludes.
The eventual top three drivers could be starting in grid positions 1, 13 and 20 for example where in the Final race format they will generally be starting in the first few grid positions.
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Post by Wakarter on Jun 26, 2011 6:46:27 GMT 9.5
The intention of the suggestion was that you in fact would drop your worst after the fifth heat, therefore putting the potential winners off the front of the grid together.
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Post by John on Jun 26, 2011 10:11:28 GMT 9.5
We are obviously interpreting the post by "Disagree" differently but putting that aside the fundamental difference of the two race formats is that the 6 Heats Drop the Worst Heat does not have any Final at all.
In the 4 Heats and Final the grid positions for the 4 Hetas are calculated and available before the racing starts. The drivers points do not impact on these grid positions. At the end of Heat 4 the Final grid positions are calculated and are based on the points scored from the 4 Heats, penalty points and if necessary tied point calculations. The top point scorer will be allocated grid 1 for the Final, next highest point scorer grid 2 etc. So the leading drivers after the 4 Heats will all be starting up the front of the grid for the Final. Prior to the Final starting it is relatively easy to calculate what position the driver starting in grid 1 needs to finish compared to the other top drivers in order to win the title.
In the 6 Heats Drop the Worst Heat as mentioned there is no Final. The grid positions for the 6 Heats are calculated and available before the racing starts. At the start of Heat 6 it is difficult to calculate which drivers are actually going to be the eventual winners as you need to take in to consideration a number of factors.
1. Total Points after 5 Heats
2. What the Worst Heat Score will be (can't confirm until after Heat 6)
3. Starting grid position for Heat 6 and points each driver may score
Basically in the race formats are as follows...
The 4 Heats and Final format is quite well known as it is the commonly utilised race format.
Heat 1 Forward
Heat 2 Reverse
Heat 3 Middle Split Reverse
Heat 4 Middle Split Forward
Final (Optional)
The 6 Heats with the Drop the Worst Heat option uses Heats 1 to 6 of the 8 Heats as shown below with the results for the worst heat dropped. I have left Heats 7 and 8 in just to mention that this is the race format used for the NT Titles.
Heat 1 Forward
Heat 2 Reverse
Heat 3 ½ Split Forward
Heat 4 ½ Split Reverse
Heat 5 ¼ Split Forward
Heat 6 ¼ Split Reverse
Heat 7 ¾ Split Forward
Heat 8 ¾ Split Reverse
Comparison
A DNF (Did Not Finish) has a bigger impact in the 4 Heats and Final race format. A driver has the ability to drop the worst heat in the 6 Heats Drop the Worst Heat and so a DNF has less impact.
The 4 Heats and Final race format has the build up to the Final and the top drivers gridded together based on the points for the 4 Heats. It is relatively easy to calculate what the finishing positions are required for the first few drivers to obtain a podium finish.
In the 6 Heats Drop the Worst there is no Final and each Heat is of equal importance. The top point scorers could be starting in grid position anywhere in the grid. With the option to Drop the Worst Heat it is difficult to calculate the impact on finishing positions.
I don't race and am only trying to provide the facts associated with each of the race formats as I have (outside of this forum) heard people referring to Heat 6 as the Final in the 6 Heats Drop the Worst and this is definitely not correct.
Hope this explanation assists.
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Post by WTF on Jun 26, 2011 22:15:36 GMT 9.5
I think you might be missing the point. I'm pretty sure the first comment is mainly addressing the fact that the choice of 6 heats drop your worst is not the right one for such a prestigious event.
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Post by John on Jun 26, 2011 22:53:02 GMT 9.5
Just to clarify. The information provided was to assist in the understanding of each of the race formats and reduce confusion. From my experience not everybody is fully conversant with the various race formats and point systems etc.
The basis of the first comment was that the writer believed the race format with a Final was in their opinion a better format for the National Titles. They also provided some good points to support their opinion.
There is some good discussion taking place.
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Post by Kart74 on Jun 28, 2011 19:12:00 GMT 9.5
For those of you who aren’t aware the presentation dinner for the Nationals will be held at Geographe Bayview Resort in Busselton. They are offering deals for people staying there over the National Title weekend so if you have not yet booked accommodation or know of anyone that hasn’t this may be an option. When you enquire make sure you tell them that you are coming to Busselton for the dirt kart Nationals. A DJ is also being organised for the presentations which should make it a good night.
Hope to see you all there!
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Post by John on Jun 30, 2011 17:00:32 GMT 9.5
Sounds like a great evening is planned. Nice venue  |
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Post by Titles Prospectus on Sept 20, 2011 11:53:28 GMT 9.5
Hi there
Just wonding if there will be an updated prospects for titles.
Detailing start times etc for Friday.
Cheers..
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Post by bcmbear on Sept 20, 2011 21:20:16 GMT 9.5
2011 Australian Dirt Kart Title:
TIMETABLE:
Friday 30th September:
Gates open: 6.00am
Scrutineering: 8.00am – 12.00pm Sharp - (With engine & chassis seals fitted)
Drivers registration: 8.00am – 12.00pm Sharp
Practice: 12.00pm – 2.00pm Sharp - (With engine & chassis seals fitted)
Officials & stewards Brief: 2.00pm Sharp.
Driver’s brief on track: 2.20pm Sharp.
Presidents welcome:
Blessing/opening/national anthem:
Racing: Will start at 3.00pm Sharp and continue till 9.00pm
getting in as many heats as possible in that time.
Gates locked: Estimated 90 minutes after last race has finished.
Saturday 1st October:
Gates Open: 6.00am
Breakfast available: 6.30am – 9.00am
Drivers/pit crew registration: 6.30am – 8.00am
Scrutineering/safety check: 6.30am – 8.00am
Officials & stewards Brief: 7.45am
Driver’s brief on track: 8.15am
No engine starts before: 8.45am
Racing commences: At 9.00am and will continue till 9.00pm or at the
end of round 5, whichever comes first.
Gates locked: Estimated 90 minutes after last race finishes.
Sunday 2nd October:
Gates open: 6.00am
Breakfast available: 6.30am – 9.00am
Scrutineering/safety check: 6.30am – 8.30am
Drivers/pit crew registration: 6:30am – 8:00 am
Officials brief: 7.45am
Driver’s brief: 8.30am
NO engine starts before: 8.45am
Racing commences: 9.00am sharp
Engine measuring: Straight after racing.
Gates locked: Estimated 90 minutes after last engine cleared.
Presentation dinner: Geographe Bay Resort, More information attached.
Monday 3rd October: Only if required by BKC or AIDKA.
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Post by John on Sept 22, 2011 19:53:14 GMT 9.5
Is there an entrance fee for spectators and if so how much?
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