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Post by philski1 on Mar 10, 2009 16:03:35 GMT 9.5
What what is the difference between a dirt kart and a go kart?
Can you use a go kart on the dirt if you change the tyres, or are there other changes needed?
Is there much dirt karting in NSW?
Cheers
Phil
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Post by outlaw19 on Mar 11, 2009 6:06:24 GMT 9.5
Dirt Kart and go kart are the same thing. The difference in go kart chassis's is either dirt kart/speedway kart chassis or bitumen chassis. Generally a dirt chassis is designed stiffer and with more controlled flex points with only basic chassis adjustments ie: wheel track, toe in toe out adjustment and seat position. Bitumen chassis's are lighter with more adjustable options Camber caster, wheel track toe in toe out, seat position and have the option available of torsion bars and fourth rails. If you want to run on dirt it is better to have a dirt chassis, but it is possible to use a bitumen chassis you have to be prepared to spend the time setting it up there is a lot of trial and error. I have found bitumen chassis's are more twitchy when pushed into a corner hard with the tendencies to swap ends with little effort so it makes it a little harder to control. So if possible get a dirt chassis and there are some good ones but don't discount a good bitumen chassis you just need to do the work to make it handle. As far as I know there is more speedway karting in NSW than Dirt Kart tracks. There is a member of this forum that maybe able to help you more with whats on over there. Send Priscilla I think thats how it is spelt, she has made a few comments on the speedway forums on this site and would be worth contacting for club information.
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Post by philski1 on Mar 11, 2009 10:35:35 GMT 9.5
Thanks for the info:)
I have a friend that is selling a TOP KART BIG BOY with a rotax 125.
Do you think this would be a good kart to convert for dirt karting?
cheers
phil
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Post by tom on Mar 13, 2009 12:46:32 GMT 9.5
I disagree with Outlaw19 on this one.. A dirt kart chassis is generally a lot more flexible than a bitumen kart, i don't know of any dirt chassis that are made with tube that isn't 28mm.. With a bitumen kart the more load you are putting on the kart (heavier weight or more powerful engine), the thicker (and stiffer) the chassis becomes.
Most bitumen karts suitable for Rotax will be either 30mm, or a combination of 30 and 32mm tubing. If the Top Kart Big Boy is the correct bitumen chassis for the Rotax, it will not work well on the dirt no matter what you do to it, it's just too stiff.
If you can find a clubman light chassis from bitumen, you will be able to make it work OK on the dirt.
The fundamental difference between the two is that in a bitumen kart you are trying to raise the inside rear wheel so the rear tyres aren't binding through the corner.
With a dirt kart you are essentially trying to do the opposite, put both rear wheels on the deck and make the chassis bind as much as possible.
You can see this in pictures of dirt karts, the inside front wheel will be raised off the track which means the jacking effect of the chassis is causing the outside front wheel to be putting force through the chassis back onto the inside rear wheel.
Usually a dirt chassis will have a narrow, long waist section which allows a smooth transition of the jacking effect as you turn the steering wheel.
The reason some bitumen chassis are more twitchy is because as you apply opposite lock the chassis jacks too quickly, and with a resultant rapid transfer of weight across the rear axle it is difficult to control corner entry oversteer.
There are ways around this, and the upside is that this situation is a benefit on corner exit so the same chassis that is twitchy on corner entry will often have better drive on corner exit.
The other thing is a dirt chassis should have a stiff rear axle, in general with a bitumen kart the grippier the track, the softer the axle that is used.. With dirt karts, the track is usually low grip, and if you buy a bitumen kart you will need to fit a stiffer axle. Most dirt karts are now using a 40mm aluminium axle that is stiffer than what you will find on any bitumen kart.
If you are using the kart for speedway, i'm not sure what handling characteristics are required and you should ask someone that specialises in that area.
I hope you find something and get out there racing, it is a load of fun!
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Post by outlaw19 on Mar 13, 2009 13:30:16 GMT 9.5
I agree with some points tom makes but I think you should contact Kustom Karts or Omega Karts for the correct definition of a dirt kart chassis and also chassis rail diameter, as some information is a little grey in areas. Speak to the guys who build them get the advice then make a decision. I do agree with tom regarding the Top Kart wouldn't be in my top choices for racing on dirt. Omega karts make a specific speedway kart chassis so would be a good starting point if you want to go that way. Mark or Micheal Burford at Lightning karts are worth talking to they race in dirt karts and also race speedway, they make a good dirt chassis
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Post by Karterdude! on Mar 13, 2009 13:35:05 GMT 9.5
Agreeded if you want a dirt cheap dirt kart head down to lightining karts on main north road currently they have a lot of kart in stock. Her is a link to a great kart: dirtkartracing.proboards100.com/index.cgi?board=sell&action=display&thread=400# Lightning Extreme Chassis 07 # KT Motor - Lightning Built # Spares # Complete Kart # Top Condition - No Bends or Dents in Frame # Fresh Motor - Just Rebuilt Its a great kart and you can get it real cheap if you buy it now. |
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Post by tom on Mar 13, 2009 13:35:36 GMT 9.5
Can't argue with that, always best to get information from the manufacturer.. I also agree that Lightning Karts would be worth a call, those guys have experience in all forms of karting, and would also know the characteristics of the Top Kart.
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Post by philski1 on Mar 13, 2009 20:32:21 GMT 9.5
Thanks guys!
I didn't get the Rotax, I picked up a clubman with 30mins track time only.They are having trouble getting 6" dirt tyres in Sydney.What tyres do you guys use and where do you get them from?
Cheers
Phil
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Post by outlaw19 on Mar 13, 2009 20:58:31 GMT 9.5
Hi Phil Go to Lightning Karts online shop www.lightningkarts.com.au I think it is. It is in the company news section of these forums, they can be bought and freighted. I use 12x8x6 Hoosier dirt tyres they have these as well as Burris brand. A lot of kart shops only stock the now popular 5inch rim size. I know Kim at Omega Racing Karts has 6 in stock and will freight, He is at Burton in South Australia, Kustom Karts now at Pooraka in SA has them as well, I would go to Lighnings or Omega they compare in price reasonably well. Cheers Brenton |
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Post by morerevsm3 on Mar 13, 2009 22:20:57 GMT 9.5
as far as I know, there are 2 AKA speedway kart clubs in NSW, kart has to meet AKA rules, so no burris, hoosier or any other 6" wheels, there is also an SKAA kart club that you can use the 6" wheels etc www.nswskc.com.au/ << AKA www.southcoastkarting.com.au/ <<SKAA/NASR |
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Post by priscilla on Mar 18, 2009 19:44:19 GMT 9.5
Hhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm. Tricky. As you appear to be in Sydney, AKA will be your club of choice. Contact Graham Keats. He is your no-all man, tell him I sent you. AKA run everything AKA standard, so there is not much room to play as per SKAA or AIDKA. If you ever want to run outside Sydney, contact me. I am not that helpful with set up etc though ! My opinion: the more shagged an AKA bitumen frame is, the better it is for dirt. My daughter run an old, welded up, aged, Dino frame for years. It was incredible what she could manage!!!!!!! Maybe the old frames are more flexible?  ?? |
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Post by priscilla on Mar 18, 2009 19:46:40 GMT 9.5
What what is the difference between a dirt kart and a go kart? Can you use a go kart on the dirt if you change the tyres, or are there other changes needed? Is there much dirt karting in NSW? Cheers Phil Just to note: The SKAA specs are designed to make the transition from bitumen to dirt super easy. Bolt on some wets, change the air filter, and you are good to race. AIDKA have more classes, so to be competitive, you need to do a little more homework. |
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Post by philski1 on Mar 19, 2009 8:01:23 GMT 9.5
Thanks for all this info, it makes it so much easier than searching the web for hours for answers!  I have got some 6"s coming from SA.(THANKS) Im actually out near Lithgow, i know there is Cullen Bullen speedway near me, but are there any dirt karting tracks? Is there any difference in ground clearence between a bitumen kart and a dirt kart? How much ground clearance should there be? Cheers Phil |
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Post by tom on Mar 19, 2009 11:34:30 GMT 9.5
If you are using the 6" rims that will increase the ground clearance. I don't believe you need any more clearance with a dirt kart than you would with a bitumen kart. With a low grip surface the main adjustment you will need to make to your bitumen kart is to relocate the seat a little higher and further back. A good site for you to visit would be www.jdmphotos.net they have plenty of pictures of dirt karts so you can get an idea of what you are aiming for. Don't stress too much about details, get out on the track and look at what others are doing while you learn the ropes.. |
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Post by outlaw19 on Mar 21, 2009 7:48:05 GMT 9.5
Steve Tillett, seat manufacturer has an interesting section in Kart Tech Feature about correct seat placement and explains the dynamics of the chassis seat setup. It can be found at www.kartracing.com.au |
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